Minutes of the Ad Hoc Airport Advisory Committee 3/23/97 The Little River Airport Ad Hoc Airport Advisory Committee met on Sunday 3/23/97 from 4-6pm. Five committee members were present: Tim, Trey, Fran, Joel and Jack. Susan Winding (now an alternate non-pilot member), Dick Ahrens, Lauren Jones, Grant Wheeler, Dave Brewer, Richard Galligher and Diana Scully were also present. We agreed that the next Ad Hoc meeting will take place Sunday, April 6 from 4-6pm at Coast Flyers. Minutes ------- The minutes of the last meeting were approved with one correction from Joel. Jack had a correction which turned out to apply to the Mendocino Beacon's report and not the minutes. Reports ------- Tim reported that he had recieved a copy of the agenda for the Supervisor's Health, Welfare, Planning and Transportation committee. It meets on Wednesday March 26 at 2:30pm to consider the resolution to form an official Airport Advisory Committee. Tim said that he didn't think he'd be able to get away from work to attend the meeting on Wednesday. He also reported that Diana Wiederman had contacted him and expressed concerns about the Wednesday meeting. She is opposed to having only 4 non-pilots and 3 pilots on the AAC, she wants "proportional representation", meaning at most 1 pilot on the committee. She also wants the Supervisors to meet on the Coast at a time when working people can attend the meeting, so they can provide their input to the process. Grant Wheeler delivered the manual for the constant current power supply for the runway lights and a brochure from Sola describing their currently available power supplies for this purpose. Grant also agreed to take a copy to Skip Jones. Discussion of HWP&T meeting --------------------------- We discussed the Wednesday meeting. We had expected the full Board to consider the draft resolution from last December. It seems that it was sent back to the HWP&T committee. Trey wondered if that implied that the AAC would be asked to report to HWP&T instead of directly to the full Board. Jack wondered if the issue of a County-wide AAC vs a local AAC would be reopened. Tim asked who could attend the Wednesday afternoon meeting. Dave Brewer said he could go. Joel said he might be able to. Dick said he would rearrange his schedule and would attend. Grant said he'd be willing to go if necessary, but that we should know that he can't be a committee member. We discussed Diana Wiederman's desire to have only 1 pilot on the committee. There was general agreement that this wouldn't work, both because of the poor representation this would give to the diverse pilot community and because of the need for quite a lot of technical work on aviation matters. Trey said that we should request the official minutes of this HWP&T meeting. We hope that the process [of establishing an official committee] won't be slowed down. And we should thank the Supervisors for having this matter on their agenda. GPS --- Tim handed out a new draft of the GPS report, dated 3/23/97. Trey handed out a few pages of notes on Section 3 of the previous draft. We went through Trey's handout, starting with section 3.1, Traffic and Noise. Trey proposed to add text to 3.1 stating that because the GPS system allows landings that were not previously possible, an increase in noise must result. Tim and Jack explained that, during the dry months of the year, it is common for a layer of clouds (stratus) to form over the airport. Local pilots can "scud run" to slip in under this, but tourists typically end up circling in the clear sky above the cloud layer, looking for the airport or for a hole in the clouds. Thus, although the tourists often do not end up landing, they still create as much or more noise than an aircraft using the GPS approach would have. This led to a discussion of the thin layer of class G airspace that would still remain if a GPS apporach is designed - a layer between 500 and 700 feet above the ground. Trey said he was glad that there would still be a way for non-instrument rated local pilots to get into Little River. Tim said that yes, but he hoped they would get instrument ratings instead, since an instrument approach is much safer than scud running. Trey asked when can a pilot fly through the clouds. Is it ever legal for a non-instrument rated pilot to do so? No. Only instrument rated pilots may legally fly through clouds. In class G airspace only IFR pilots can fly through clouds without a flight plan or clearance, but in class E airspace they must file a flight plan and get a clearance. Richard asked if the GPS approach would be straight-in or circling. Tim said both approaches will be straight-in. Richard said that this means aircraft flying the approach will have much less noise impact than those flying a normal VFR pattern. We all agreed and said that the draft report mentions this. Jack said that scud running is often at a very low altitude and can be quite noisy. Someone said that we should fill in the table in section 3.1 of the report with data for Little River. We discussed how to estimate the number of operations per year. Dick said that 978 overnight tiedown fees were collected last year. Tim said that the Mendocino Stage (from data collected by Susan) drove between 2,000 and 3,000 people per year between 1993 and 1995. Since the Stage counts trips each way, and counts individual people, this implies fewer transient airplanes than 1/2 the number of stage trips (generally it is transients that use the Stage). The Airport Master Plan estimated 10,000 operations per year in 1987, when there were 23 based aircraft. Several people laughed, saying that the Master Plan numbers were too high. After discussion, we agreed on an estimated range of 2500 to 6000 operations per year. We discussed whether the number of operations has grown or decreased in the last few years. Joel pointed out that a few years ago there were 5 or 6 based aircraft tied down outdoors and now there is only one. Fuel sales are also down. We moved on to section 3.2, Altimeter Setting. Trey proposed some new language to clarify this section. There was some discussion of whether a hand-held radio would make it practical for the airport supervisor to give the altimeter setting when he is pumping gas or is working elsewhere on the airport. Tim said that the range of a handheld radio is generally too short - aircraft will probably be 15 or more miles away when they ask for the altimeter, before getting approach clearance from Oakland Center. Grant suggested a repeater, but these aren't readily available for aircraft radios. Joel said that a portable telephone was not really practical to carry everywhere either. Tim said that we should simply expect the altimeter setting to be available only when the airport supervisor can give it, when it doesn't conflict with his other duties. We moved on to Section 3.5, Moving the Road. Joel disagreed with Trey's language, saying that pilots are not surprised by cars driving on the road, and that pilots can see the cars coming. Trey said that cars are sometimes surprised. We proceeded to section 3.6, Airspace. Susan expressed a concern that departures would get backed up on foggy days by the limitations of the radar environment (which limit IFR operations to less than one every 15 minutes at most). She worried that there might be one taking off every 15 minutes until midnight. Joel said that most pilots leave before the fog rolls in, and at most 4 to 6 people leave after the fog has rolled in. There is no danger of hours of late departures. Someone asked that section 3.7 on new equipment be expanded by adding data on the cost of approved GPS receivers. It currently costs from $6,000 to $10,000 to install an approved GPS in an aircraft. New non-pilot member -------------------- Joel Morrison said that he is a former pilot and worked professionally as an air traffic controller. He is interested in serving on the committee. The committee didn't feel that he qualified as a non-pilot, but invited him to continue coming to meetings. Trey said that he had called Charles Peterson and that Charles suggested Tom Wodetsky as a possible nonpilot member. Trey said that Tom was on the CAC and was a good worker. Someone said that Tom was present for part of this meeting, but left without saying anything. Fran said that she probably will not join the "official" committee, but will stay with the Ad Hoc Committee until it goes official. We agreed to meet next on April 6 at 4pm. The agenda will be: - approve minutes of previous meeting - reports on recent events - GPS instrument approach - official Airport Advisory Committee - agree on agenda for next meeting Ad Hoc Airport Committee voting members: ----------------------------------------- Joel Bornstein pilot, flight instructor lives near airport Trey Loy non-pilot, lives near airport Jack Reichel pilot, businessman Tim Scully pilot, computer programmer, lives near airport commutes by air to Oakland weekly Ray Yates non-pilot, Albion businessman Fran Tucker non-pilot, neighbor of the airport manages the Woods Susan Winding airport neighbor, non-pilot, local business owner Ad Hoc Committee alternate members: ----------------------------------- Michael Moore pilot, economist Dick Ahrens pilot airport neighbor