The Little River Airport Advisory Committee minutes 6/19/98 meeting A meeting of The Little River Airport Advisory Committee was held at the Woods Clubhouse on Friday, June 19, 1998, at 9:00am. The agenda had been posted at the Little River Airport and at the Little River Post Office. Present at the meeting were committee members: Tim Scully, Dave Brewer, Trey Loy, Willow Trent, Susan Winding and Joel Bornstein. Also participating in the meeting were: Grant Wheeler, Judith Barry, Bob Archibald and Dick Ahrens. Les Proctor arrived at 9:20 am. The meeting was convened at 9:01 am. Tim Scully distributed copies of the communications sent and received since the last meeting as well as information pertaining to the proposed modifications to the fuel system at the Little River Airport. Also, he included profit and loss statements from the airport records, entered into Excel by Dave Brewer. The minutes of the last meeting were unanimously accepted as written. Joel Bornstein said he was unhappy with the statement that he must recuse himself from voting on the Dragonfly Aviation proposal. He feels that in a community such as this, almost everyone has conflicts. There was considerable discussion on the matter. Some members said they thought that the money issue made it a conflict. Others felt that money isn't the only issue which might cause a conflict. Tim Scully read the letter from the county mentioning that there might be a conflict in this case. Dick Ahrens said that the Brown Act does not require recusion; only that openness and fairness is required. Tim Scully reminded us that County Counsel Peter Klein had stated that there was no conflict of interest statement required of us. The committee agreed that it was up to the individual to recuse him/herself if a fair decision on the question was not possible. Dave Brewer proposed and Susan Winding seconded a motion that a statement be made on all Little River Airport Advisory Committee reports when a conflict of interest has a possible effect on any member's vote. This was approved by a unanimous vote. Tim Scully read the communications for the benefit of those who had not previously seen them: Appendix A: email exchange with DPW regarding the Dragonfly Aviation proposal Appendix B: letter to Dragonfly Aviation requesting clarification on some issues. Appendix C: Dragonfly Aviation's response Appendix D: email to Department of Public Works with questions on the proposed fuel system and statements of the committee's desire to make the test planting of ground cover. Appendix E: airport profit and loss statements Regarding the proposal to base a training/rental aircraft at Little River Airport: Several persons asked Bob Archibald, owner of Dragonfly Aviation, for clarification of points made in his letters. Susan Winding asked how many pilots have approached Dragonfly? Bob replied that the number was about 1/2 dozen. Bob said he already brings students to Little River Airport for training. The south coast airports are either unsafe or restricted, limiting training usage. Susan asked if Bob would use a local instructor to check out renters? Bob said that he would initially send an instructor here from Santa Rosa. Trey Loy said he was mistaken when he said that Sonoma County was considering banning touch and go landings. That was a land use issue that he had heard about. Trey said he has problems with touch and goes, and so he is reluctant to see any additional training going on at Little River Airport. Susan Winding asked if we can eliminate touch and goes? Les Proctor and Joel Bornstein agreed that they could be restricted. Joel said that they are an essential part of training. Les said they could be replaced by stop and goes or low approaches, which would produce just as much noise. Dave Brewer suggested that we table the touch and go issue and get on with the Dragonfly issue. Others felt that they are in fact, one issue. Judith Barry asked about the weather. How was Bob going to be assured that a pilot would not take his plane when the weather wasn't acceptable? Bob pointed out that student pilots cannot fly solo; he may base an instructor here, in the long run; there are many levels of pilot; the pilot makes the decision. Bob said he will have a person here to check out each pilot. Willow Trent asked if there might be increased business? Bob replied, possibly; a mechanic here might be a possibility and there might be increased fuel sales. Les Proctor said there would be a payment to the county of 2% of the gross sales. Susan Winding asked about charter operations. Bob said he no longer does charters. He wants to do training and rentals only. Trey Loy said we should vote on whether or not to allow Dragonfly's operation at Little River Airport. Joel Bornstein spoke of the fact that Coast Flyers doesn't have enough training demand to support him beyond a part time level. Another FBO would have difficulty here. Les Proctor said he has had several people ask him why there is no alternative to Coast Flyers? He said that the decision to operate here should be Dragonfly's. It's a business decision. Joel said that Coast Flyers has responded to its member's desires by purchasing another aircraft for rental at a significantly lower rate. Dave Brewer said these points are not germaine to the question at hand. Trey asked how having two businesses could better serve the community? Dave Brewer said that 1) Competition will bring lower prices and 2) Coast Flyers will be impacted. Susan Winding asked what would be the period of Dragonfly's contract? Joel Bornstein said he thinks that once they're in, they can be expected to stay for as long as they wish. Bob Archibald said he would leave if the venture is not profitable. Tim Scully summed up: Trey Loy and Susan Winding are concerned with noise due to increased traffic. Can the County control growth? Susan Winding agreed that she is concerned with the possible increase in traffic. Trey Loy stated that he is concerned with outside training coming here and the increased growth of the airport that it would bring. Willow Trent asked Mr. Archibald if he had done any formal projections of anticipated business. Bob said he is responding to requests; give it a try. Judith Barry asked again about the Sonoma County restrictions? Bob said this is the first he's heard of any. Susan Winding asked how many rental users there are at the Little River Airport now? Dave Brewer responded that 14 is the number he derived from the recent pilot survey. Tim Scully asked how much traffic they produce? Susan Winding asked how we could determine that? Trey Loy said he sees training and rental as different. Rentals=competition; Training=noise. He asked Bob where his interest lies? Bob replied that they are tied together: Rentals average 1 landing per hour, but training means more landings. He estimated 25-35 landings/month. Joel Bornstein said he feels that estimate is unreasonably low. Les Proctor said he feels that more than one instructor is desirable. Joel Bornstein agreed with him, but pointed out that there just isn't enough work here to keep even one instructor busy. Tim Scully asked that we move along; time is running short. There is other business to be dealt with. Dave Brewer summed up: 1) increased operations, 2) Reduced costs, 3) Response to requests and 4) Impact the existing FBO. Dave Brewer suggested that approving this request might result in 35-70 additional operations per month. Joel Bornstein said that on a good day a student can do 10-12 touch and go landings in one hour. If the business is here, they will do more than 35-70 operations. Students need 50-150 landings to learn. Others repeated their concerns. Dave Brewer reported that there was an aircraft doing touch and goes before 8:00 am recently. We all agreed that is unacceptable. Les Proctor said that the Coast Guard C-130 really doesn't need to land here. Some pilots make more than one landing here just so they can be more familiar with the airport. This enhances safety. We continued to discuss the number of noise events and the possible increase. Susan Winding was interested in restriction of touch and goes. Judith Barry asked how a restriction would be enforced? Les Proctor said a note in the Airport/Facilities Directory would make compliance mandatory. Judith Barry asked about people flying the wrong traffic pattern? That's difficult to enforce, said Les. Judith asked, how will we enforce limits on touch and goes? Tim Scully asked if the decision to limit touch and goes might affect Dragonfly's decision. Bob said it would not. Trey Loy asked that we defer decision until our next meeting. Susan, Willow and Dave said no to that request. Tim asked where we stand on the question? Trey Loy asked for more discussion. Tim asked if Bob wants delay. Bob replied "no." Judith Barry suggested that we might wait until the full committee was present to vote on the matter. Dave Brewer said the questions have been answered. There is no more to discuss now. Several people repeated their concerns. Tim Scully asked if there are any other comments? Grant Wheeler urged a vote. Dave Brewer moved that we accept the Dragonfly Proposal. Tim Scully suggested a rider stating that we will investigate the touch and go landing restriction. The rider was not accepted nor was it discussed. Susan Winding seconded the motion. Joel asked if we should wait for Lee Edmundson? Grant Wheeler said he thought that was academic. A vote was called: in favor: three (Susan Winding, Dave Brewer, Tim Scully) opposed: three (Willow Trent, Trey Loy, Joel Bornstein). Dave Brewer moved and Susan Winding seconded that we continue the issue to our next meeting. The motion was unanimously accepted. Trey Loy said he finds it hard to make all meetings and asked about alternate members of the committee? Tim Scully said he would contact the Mendocino County Board of Supervisors to ask them to clarify the issue. We agreed that our next meeting will take place at the Woods on July 24, 1998 at 9:00 am. Grant Wheeler announced that he had taken a water sample from the airport for analysis: the results showed that the quality of the water is good. Grant Wheeler donated $25.00 for the analysis. He recommended regularly scheduled water quality tests, and he also recommended installing a water meter to monitor usage and detect leaks. Willow Trent asked about the provision in our proposed by-laws that called for possible dismissal of a member for two consecutive absences. Tim replied that it was in the proposed bylaws we sent to HWP&T, but that this committee has not yet adopted any bylaws. That's a job for us to work on at some time. Willow Trent said she was disturbed by the recent Albion-Little River Fire Department Barbeque. The new site is much closer to her home. She complained about the amplified music. She asked if the annual BBQ is the only event which will be held there? Trey said the move was made from the former location to comply with the Little River Airport Master Plan. Joel Bornstein said there is a provision in the lease allowing a limited number of additional events to be held there, per year. Tim Scully spoke briefly of the required fuel system modifications at the Little River Airport. The proposal is for an above ground tank which has been tested for safety and security, with a cardlock system for unlimited access. He had distributed information on the system at the start of this meeting. Dave Brewer spoke of the Little River Airport expenses. He stated that the airport has an income problem as opposed to an expense problem. Income has been dropping steadily for years. Tim Scully said it's partially because the cost of vehicle storage is too high. The county raised the rates to eliminate some abandoned cars, but it also eliminated some income. We agreed to continue the agenda of this meeting to the next, with the addition of the fire department picnic site and the touch and go issues. Since we had come to the end of our allotted meeting period, the meeting was adjourned at 11:02 am. Respectfully submitted, Joel Bornstein, Secretary We agreed that committee's next meeting will be from 9am to 11am on Friday July 24 at the Clubhouse at The Woods, 43300 Little River Airport Rd. The agenda for this meeting is: Approve the minutes of the last meeting Communications (letters, FAXes, etc, sent/received since last meeting) Dragonfly aviation's application for an FBO permit to operate a training aircraft at Little River Airport Should flight training activity (including touch and go landings) at Little River be restricted in some way? Fireman's Park, noise and dust complaints from neighbors Possible cardlock fuel system at the airport, including environmental issues Possible minor modifications of the noise abatement policy, for clarity The airport budget, actual income and expenses Logging of traffic at the airport Timber harvests at the airport Airport erosion control Additional hangars at the airport Reports from subcommittees Public comment Report on finances (contributions received, expenses incurred) Agree on a date, time and place for the next meeting Agree on agenda for next meeting Members of the Little River Airport Advisory Committee ------------------------------------------------------ Joel Bornstein pilot, flight instructor lives near airport Dave Brewer pilot, lives near airport Lee Edmundson non-pilot Trey Loy non-pilot, lives near airport Tim Scully pilot, computer programmer, lives near airport commutes by air to Oakland weekly Willow Trent airport neighbor, non-pilot Susan Winding airport neighbor, non-pilot, business owner ----------------------------------------------------------------- Appendix A: - Email from Tim to DPW and DPW reply ----------------------------------------------------------------- >From townsend Fri May 29 13:15:43 1998 To: tim scully Subject: Re: Drangonfly Aviation Regarding the request from Dragonfly Aviation to base a training aircraft at Little River Airport, the Department of Transportation would appreciate an Advisory Committee recommendation. If the Committee needs answers to questions in order to formulate a recommendation, please feel free to seek those answers. I will inform Mr. Archibald that Committee review is on-going. The Committee may wish to consider the possibility of a conflict of interest if Mr. Bornstein participates in this recommendation process. -- townsend (Stanley Townsend) -- tim scully wrote: > > The Little River Airport Advisory committee met on 5/15/98 and discussed > Dragonfly Aviation's application for an FBO permit to operate a single > training aircraft at Little River Airport. Although the committee did > not reach a final recommendation on this question, this letter is a > progress report which may be of help to you. > > Joel Bornstein, the committee member who is a flight instructor, was not > present at the 5/15 meeting. > > Mr. Bob Archibald of Dragonfly telephoned to leave a message saying that he > was unable to fly to Little River for the meeting, due to weather, but that > he will try to meet with us at a future time. > > The committee members recognized that competition could initially lower > the price of aircraft rental and flight instruction, although they expressed > concern that the market seems to be too small to support two competing > vendors on a long term basis. The committee expressed concern over the > likely negative impact on local business. > > Serious concern was expressed over the noise impact of additional touch and go > landings from additional flight training, in the event that Dragonfly's > operation were to result in more training activity. > > The committee has a number of questions which it would like answered before > a decision is made: > > If Dragonfly rents aircraft remotely by use of an 800 number, how will > they examine the qualifications and credentials of prospective renters? > > How will the aircraft be inspected for safety. > > Who will pass on the keys to renters? > > How will maintenance records be made available for examination? > > Can we know more about Dragonfly Aviation? > > Are they part of a larger company? > > What are their mid-term and long term goals at Little River? (i.e. > do they plan other business activities?) > > Can we learn more about their history at other airports? > > What else do they do now and where (i.e., do they operate at other > locations and what do they do apart from renting training aircraft)? > > One committee member reported, after the 5/15 meeting, that there has > been a series of articles in the Sonoma County press about a movement to > ban touch and go landings at some or all Sonoma County airports. We'd like > to have time to collect more information about this. > > Does this have any connection with Dragonfly's desire to put an aircraft > at Little River? > > Are they thinking in terms of importing students from Sonoma County? > > Would you like the committee to seek answers to these questions, or would > DPW prefer to do this? > > Respectfully Yours, > > Tim Scully, Ph.D. > Chair, Airport Advisory Committee --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Appendix B: - letter to Dragonfly aviation --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Scully 6/9/98 Bob Archibald Dragonfly Aviation 2222 Airport Blvd Santa Rosa, CA 95403 Dear Mr. Archibald: The Mendocino County Department of Public Works asked the Little River Airport Advisory Committee to make a recommendation regarding your application for a permit to base a primary trainer aircraft at Little River. The committee discussed your application in its meeting of 5/15/98, and found that we have a number of concerns and questions which we hope you can address before our next meeting on 6/19/98. To give you some context, I think you should know that several committee members expressed deep concern over the noise impact of a possible increase in touch and go landings. The neighborhood around the airport is quite noise sensitive. If Dragonfly rents aircraft remotely by use of an 800 number, how will they examine the qualifications and credentials of prospective renters? How will the aircraft be inspected for safety. Who will pass on the keys to renters? How will maintenance records be made available for examination? Can we know more about Dragonfly Aviation? Are they part of a larger company? What are their mid-term and long term goals at Little River? (i.e. do they plan other business activities?) Can we learn more about their history at other airports? What else do they do now and where (i.e., do they operate at other locations and what do they do apart from renting training aircraft)? Is Dragonfly thinking in terms of importing students from Sonoma County? Our next meeting is scheduled for 6/19/98 from 9 to 11am at The Clubhouse at The Woods, Little River Airport Rd. Thank you for your attention. Yours, Tim Scully, Ph.D. Chair, Airport Advisory Committee ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Appendix C: - reply from Dragonfly aviation ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From DRAGONFUEL Thu Jun 11 11:25:45 1998 To: tim.scully Subject: Dragonfly Airport Proposal at Little River Tim, Thank you for the letter. I had hoped to talk with you sometime this week. I had attempted to attend your committee meeting on May 15th, but there was such a cloud cover that I got no further than Anderson Valley and would have had no transport if I had landed at Booneville. I will try to attend your next meeting on June 19th. Mendocino County had told me that the committee had some questions and I am glad to address them. 1. All renters will be checked out in the aircraft by a Dragonfly instructor pilot as required by our insurance company (AVEMCO). We will maintain copies of their medicals, date of BFR's and checkouts, as well as comprehensive rental agreement. 2. The aircraft are fully inspected with regular 100 hour inspections as well as 50 hour oil and filter changes. All AD's and service bulletins are reviewed and complied with as required by the FAA. Our concept is to have an FAA certified mechanic, who is resident in the Mendocino area maintain the plane. Details will be finalized as initial operational capability approaches. 3. A local agent will pass keys or alternatively a locked key box when agent not available. 4. Maintenance logs will be available to the pilots at Little River as needed. Dragonfly Aviation Inc. is a California corporation operating at Sonoma County Airport since 1981. It is wholly owned by Robert G. and Irene M. Archibald. At various times Dragonfly has engaged in fuel service, aircraft maintenance, and air charter business in addition to aircraft rental and flight instruction. For a time we also operated the airport and business at Cloverdale. We now concentrate on rental and flight instruction. Our goals at Little River are to provide for friendly responsive flight instruction and rental, as requested by various pilots and prospective pilots in the Mendocino/Ft Bragg area. Additionally an aircraft at Little River may better serve established pilot customers in the Gualala/Sea Ranch/Point Arena area. These current customers are served either in Santa Rosa or by temporary relocation to Ocean Ridge. Since training at Ocean Ridge or Sea Ranch is not reasonable or allowed, training flights have by necessity involved flights to Little River. Dragonfly Aviation has made a point of maintaining friendly relations at all airports in the local area. We are sensitive to legitimate concerns of local residents. We comply with all local restrictions and recommendations. Dragonfly has no plans to "import" students from Sonoma County. We presently use Little River for training by South Coast residents of Mendocino County. Additionally it has been a destination for many years for our rental customers enroute to the tourist attractions of Mendocino. A small percentage of our current students occasionally use Little River during their cross country training, this will not increase. There may be additional flights to rotate aircraft from Santa Rosa to Little River as needed to satisfy Mendocino customer needs. I have been a property owner at Sea Ranch since 1968 and thus a tax payer to the Point Arena School District, as well as sales tax from purchases throughout the South Coast. In that regard I consider myself an interested party in Mendocino County affairs. We presently own a weekend house at Sea Ranch and may at some future time increase our time there and decrease our presence in Santa Rosa. My personal background: born in the Los Angeles area, college at Oregon State University (BSand MS in general science), 22 years in the United States Air Force as a fighter/reconnaissance pilot and retirement to Santa Rosa in 1976. I worked as a commuter airline pilot for two years (STOL Air Commuter), followed by three years as senior pilot and general manager of another flight school, and founding of my own company in 1981. I have been involved in the Boy Scout organization for many years at the youth and adult level, including vice-president for programs of the Redwood Empire Council (Petaluma to Crescent City). I ran unsuccessfully for the Santa Rosa Junior College Board of Trustees, but have no future political aspirations. Please advise me if you need further information before the meeting on the 19th. Look forward to meeting with you and your committee. Bob Archibald ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Appendix D: - Email to DPW ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From tim Tue Jun 16 06:27:50 1998 To: mendpw Subject: cardlock fuel, grass planting Cc: tim, townsend The Little River Airport Advisory Committee asked me to write to you regarding two issues which were discussed at our meeting last month. We understand that a cardlock fuel system is being considered for Little River, with an above-ground fuel tank. The committee would like to know what environmental impact/safety analysis has been done. Concern was expressed over possible earthquakes and fuel spills, for example. We discussed weed control, and agreed that we'd like to have information on alternatives to the use of herbacides. Would the use of a blowtorch be an acceptable alternative for controlling weeds in the cracks of the pavement? In any event, the committee voted unanimously to recommend with the test planting of Kovar Sheep Fescue, which the Ad Hoc Committee had discussed with DPW and Greg Guisti in 1996. It is our understanding that this grass won't grow over 8" high, will not require mowing, and should control erosion. If test plantings go well, then it may be worthwhile to consider seeding most of the open area of the airport. Thank you for your attention. Respectfully Yours, Tim Scully, Ph.D. Chair, Airport Advisory Committee --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Appendix E: airport profit and loss statements --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Little River A/P P&L 97-98YTD *97-98 Est* 96-97 95-96 94-95 INCOME Fuel & Oil Fuel $6,794.01 $9,058.68 $9,773.41 $12,130.95 $10,973.44 Oil $115.56 $154.08 $231.26 $192.28 $217.07 S/T Fuel & Oil $6,909.57 $9,212.76 $10,004.67 $12,323.23 $11,190.51 Tiedown Fees Overnight $3,255.07 $4,340.09 $6,173.01 $5,905.00 $4,606.00 Monthly $1,330.00 $1,773.33 $3,720.00 $7,090.00 $11,619.00 S/T Fuel & Oil $4,585.07 $6,113.43 $9,893.01 $12,995.00 $16,225.00 Auto & RV Parking Monthly $1,445.00 $1,926.67 $2,660.00 $2,950.00 $2,410.00 Yearly $2,025.00 $2,700.00 $4,700.00 $6,800.00 $7,900.00 S/T Auto & RV Parking $3,470.00 $4,626.67 $7,360.00 $9,750.00 $10,310.00 Hangar Fees County $6,910.00 $9,213.33 $9,545.00 $11,420.00 $8,050.00 Private $9,240.00 $12,320.00 $10,000.00 $7,455.00 $1,240.00 S/T Hangar Fees $16,150.00 $21,533.33 $19,545.00 $18,875.00 $9,290.00 Miscellaneous $0.00 $0.00 $445.00 $270.00 $300.00 Total Income $31,114.64 $41,486.18 $47,247.68 $54,213.23 $47,315.51 EXPENSES Communication $582.82 $699.38 $645.84 $607.90 $771.25 Household $1,981.79 $2,378.15 $2,219.39 $1,998.53 $1,775.03 Insurance $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $6,837.00 Maintenance $2,782.95 $5,000.00 $10,709.66 $9,663.71 $11,019.94 Office Expense $0.00 $0.00 $266.72 $127.02 $344.29 Arch & Engineering Svc $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $348.81 $0.00 Prof & Special Svcs $31,720.78 $40,570.78 $35,728.19 $36,147.10 $36,268.15 Pubs & Legal Notices $678.56 $678.56 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 Special Dpt Expense $56.36 $56.36 $272.64 $19.31 $3,312.02 Utilities $1,664.57 $1,997.48 $2,138.86 $1,570.68 $1,998.23 Operating Transfers Out $0.00 $5,000.00 $5,000.00 $5,000.00 $5,000.00 Total Expense $39,467.83 $56,380.71 $56,981.30 $55,483.06 $67,325.91 Profit (Loss) ($8,353.19)($14,894.53)($9,733.62)($1,269.83)($20,010.40) Notes ----- 97-98YTD = thru March, the Fiscal Year is July-June 97-98Est =(97-98YTD)*1.333 Why did monthly tiedowns fall so fast and far? Why Auto & RV parking so low last two years? 97-98YTD = thru April 97-98 Est = DMB Wag communication = Pac Bell Household = Ft Bragg Disposal Insurance = Must have been separate liability policy in94-95 Maintenance = Rossi's, Baxman, Big 4 Rents,R.Jones Elec, Office expense = "Xerox charges", Savings Bank of Mendo Prof & Special svcs = A/P Supervisor, plus $10k once a year "AdminSvcs for A/P" Pubs and Legal Notices = Recruiting ads? Special Departmental Expense = Inventory adjustment in 94-95 Utilities = PG&E Operating Transfer Out = Transfer to capital budget to match state grant ----------------------------------------------------------------------------