The Little River Airport Advisory Committee (minutes, 7/24/98 meeting) A meeting of The Little River Airport Advisory Committee was held at the Woods Clubhouse on Friday, July 24, 1998, at 9:00am. The agenda had been posted at the Little River Airport and at the Little River Post Office. Present at the meeting were committee members: Tim Scully, Dave Brewer, Trey Loy, Willow Trent, Lee Edmundson and Joel Bornstein. Also participating in the meeting were: Naomi Jardie, Hershel Haaf, Diana Scully, Thomas A. Taylor and Dick Ahrens. The meeting was convened at 9:04 am. Tim Scully distributed copies of communications sent and received since the last meeting. The minutes of the last meeting were accepted with one change. Also, Lee Edmundson said that Robert's Rules of Order does not allow for the Chairman to break a tie by voting a second time. Each member of the committee, including the chair, has one vote only. Tim Scully read the communications sent and received since the last meeting: There was a letter that he wrote to the Department of Public Works regarding cardlock fuel issues and ground cover at the airport; a letter responding to the above letter; there was a letter from Tim to the Health, Welfare, Planning and Transportation Committee asking for clarification on the questions on alternate members of the Little River Airport Advisory Committee. Susan Winding had written two letters to Tim for the committee, explaining that she was unable to attend the meeting due to a family emergency. In absentia, her vote was to approve the application of Dragonfly Aviation. A phone call was received from Michael Scannell by Tim. The subject was an economic development study of the airport, as requested by Supervisor Peterson and addressed some problems of expansion at the airport. Lee Edmundson commented that Supervisor Peterson wants low cost housing to be made available; possibly at Little River Airport. Trey Loy thinks Supervisor Peterson is interested in small businesses at the Little River Airport. Tim said he doesn't think that Supervisor Peterson has any specific project in mind; he wants to do something. Supervisor Peterson will keep The Little River Airport Advisory Committee notified. We then moved on to the Dragonfly Aviation issue: Lee Edmundson observed that the issue is a complex one. He talked with Grant Wheeler and Ed Rantala as well as Bob Archibald. It's a social as well as a business issue. There may be questions of possible restraint of trade; he suggests that we contact the County Counsel for advice. Noise is an important issue. Safety is a concern. Lee doesn't like the plan. Bob stated that he has the commitment of an A&P mechanic as well as a CFI, but he is unwilling to disclose the name of the individual(s). Lee is uncomfortable with the impersonal methods of renting the aircraft. Bob said he is planning on a checkout of the potential renter, initially. He feels it isn't necessary to make personal contact with the renter after the checkout. Lee feels that this system is fine, but only in the best case. The discussion digressed to the issue of touch and go landings; they are not allowed at the Sea Ranch Airport. Lee asked what power does Little River Airport have to restrict touch and goes? Why the secrecy at Dragonfly Aviation? Tim Scully said that there are a number of licensed mechanics in the county, but none are insured or have permission to operate at the Little River Airport. Lee repeated that Bob Archibald has said that he has a man to do the job, but who, is a secret. Tim Scully said that Dragonfly Aviation could supply a mechanic if licensed, permitted and insured, etc. Willow Trent said she spoke with Bob last month and he said that he has no interest in opening an FBO(fixed base operation) at the Little River Airport. Tim Scully said that any business at the airport is an FBO. Joel Bornstein commented that the county will receive 2% of the gross receipts of any business done at the airport. He explained the meaning of FBO. Lee said that when he spoke with John Merriman, he was told that there was not enough business to support one operation, let alone more than one. Dave Brewer said that this is a business decision and not our concern. Lee Edmundson made an analogy with the new Daly's building in Fort Bragg. He said that "Cut throat" competition is undesirable. There may not be better rates available. Will this lead to a price war? Trey Loy said this is a hard question. The instruction and the rentals are two separate issues, as he sees them. Some people want an alternative to Coast Flyers for instruction. There are teachers in Ukiah. He called Ace Aerial in Ukiah and Spoke to Claudia Clark (although he didn't know her name.) She has had locals for students. Insurance is required. Trey feels that competition can be a negative in some cases. Michael Scannell wants more business at Little River Airport. Dragonfly Aviation may increase business at the airport for awhile. Trey noted that the people have a right to learn to fly. Trey spoke to Bob Archibald. He is now leaning toward approval of the application. He agrees with Lee Edmundson regarding his reservations. He asked about restrictions on touch and goes, etc. How long might the process take to be completed by our committee? Tim Scully said the Little River Airport is a public use airport; the F.A.A. has a firm non-discrimination policy. Lee Edmundson said that the local interest has first priority. Tim repeated that the F.A.A. demands that there be no restrictions. Lee said the restrictions will apply to all. He wants to set up limits. The neighbors want and need them. He feels that the restrictions should be dealt with before the Dragonfly Aviation issue is resolved. Dave Brewer said the restrictions may take too long to work out. The Dragonfly Aviation issue should be concluded now. Lee said he wants Dragonfly Aviation to be warned that we are working on possibly restricting operations at the Little River Airport. Trey said that Dragonfly Aviation came into the picture with no restrictions. Is it reasonable that we change the rules now? Lee asked how long it might take to create guidelines? Dave Brewer estimated 6 months. Trey made a comparison with the noise abatement process. Tim said the pilots may want less restrictions. Lee asked what is a reasonable set of restrictions. He suggested that we set up a sub-committee. Tim agreed. He pointed out that he had made that suggestion at an earlier time. Lee asked why we should hurry the decision on Dragonfly Aviation? He agrees with the sub-committee idea. He wants to protect the neighbors' interests. Tim asked how we can balance those interests? Should we set Dragonfly Aviation aside for now? We must maintain a balance. Lee said balance is not important. The neighbors are more important. Tim disagreed. Lee fears expansion. Trey Loy said he has been trying to limit expansion for some time. He feels that there should not be a sub-committee to formulate restrictions. The issue is too critical. The whole Little River Airport Advisory Committee should work on the issue. The request of Dragonfly Aviation has reopened the issue in his mind. He wants to place the issue on the agenda. Joel Bornstein pointed out that there are others in the community, yet to be identified, who will want flight training. Any restrictions may increase the expense of their education. For example, if Joel must take them elsewhere to practice, this will take considerable extra time. Lee asked if we can find a balance? Tim said that this is a balancing act. We should notify the neighbors requesting input. Lee wants to avoid lobbying; the pilots tend to gang up against the others. He wants to send a questionnaire to the community. Tim said he has observed that exactly the opposite has been true. Joel said that a questionnaire might be unreasonably biased, since the potential students cannot be polled, the pilots are largely through training and the current students are very few in number. Dave asked what is the issue? Is it balance? Tim thinks that Lee wants neighbors' input only. Lee wants to recommend guidelines. Trey asked that we add the discussion of flight training restrictions to the agenda. Tim so moved. Lee seconded. All agreed. Hershel Haaf is a near neighbor. He lives on Top o'Hill road, in the shadow of the airport. He has no complaints. He wonders if the neighbors complain. He admitted that he is a little hard of hearing, but aircraft noise is music to his ears. Dave mentioned the folks under the departure end of the runway who need our consideration. Dave called the Dragonfly Aviation question. Tim repeated Lee's concern. Safety is #1. Maintenance logs must be available for pilots' inspection. Lee said that trust is a big issue. Who checks the plane? It's a potentially dangerous device. Face to face interaction is needed. Willow Trent said she was assured by Bob Archibald that the local agent will do that. Lee reported that Bob Archibald stated that such contact is not important. Tom Taylor asked Joel Bornstein if Coast Flyers always has a person there to hand the keys to the renter? Joel's response was no. Trey Loy asked Joel what Coast Flyers does for maintenance? Joel said that the planes are taken to Healdsburg or to Santa Rosa, or a mechanic comes here if needed. Lee asked if an A&P mechanic is available at the Little River Airport? Joel replied, not to us. Lee asked if that is a matter of choice? Joel said, no. Tom said that he is an A&P mechanic, but he chooses to not work as one. Dick Ahrens said he feels that the key in a lockbox is ok. The preflight is the pilot's obligation. Lee fears that nothing mandates communications. He doesn't like lockbox idea. Dick said that when a renter has a problem, he is required to report it to the renting agency. Joel said that there are less experienced people who require more supervision. For their safety it is good that a qualified person be present to hand them the keys to the plane. Weather is a vital issue here. Dave Brewer asked if we are ready to take a vote on the Dragonfly Aviation issue? Shall we vote on the original motion. Tim repeated the motion: Do we approve of the application of Dragonfly Aviation to operate a trainer/rental aircraft at Little River Airport? He asked if we want any restrictions to be added to the motion? Dave said there should be no restrictions. Tom asked if any future restrictions will apply to all operators? He was assured that they would. Lee restated that he has severe reservations on impersonal rentals. Tim asked for a vote. There were 5 votes in favor. Joel Bornstein voted no. Lee Edmundson abstained. Tim asked if we should include a notice that there are possible future restrictions on touch and goes and on lockbox operations. Willow Trent asked if the Little River Airport gets credit on the logging operations at the airport. Tim Scully replied that it appears not. The County Counsel, Peter Klein, has said that the logging is to cover past outlays by the county at the airport. Moving to the issue of the Firemen's Park, Willow Trent said that she had read the contract that the Fire Department has with Mendocino County. It's a five year contract that comes due in September. She commented that they had cleared the area and that there is less vegetation to dampen the sound now. She is alarmed that the contract allows up to 30 gatherings per year, consisting of 12-200 people. Willow can handle 1 or 2 maximum per year. She said that she has donated time to the fire department in form of CPR training, etc. in the past. She has written to Fire Chief Rick Ricca to ask why the move took place when the previous location caused no problem for her? She's not received an answer. Tim Scully explained that the Little River Airport master plan called for the move. Tim had asked the F.A.A. about possible air-camping at the airport. The response was negative. The F.A.A. is concerned with children in the area where aircraft may be operating. This may be the reasoning that Hodges and Schutt, the authors of the Little River Airport Master Plan, used in recommending the move. Lee said he isn't surprised that there is now a noise problem. Trey said that he went to meetings years ago on the possible use of the airport lands. He liked varied use of the airport, even a dragstrip was considered. The liability issue stopped all progress on such ideas. Tim said he had a call from Bob Rodriguez of the Recreation District. Bob is interested in any recreational use of the airport lands. Dave proposed that we write the Fire Department requesting that a representative come to a meeting to tell us how they feel about the area, etc. He also suggested that we write a letter to the county requesting that they delay giving the Fire Department a new contract without our review and possible suggestion of modifications. Willow said that her biggest problem is with amplified music. Joel asked if moving the bandstand might be helpful? Willow said she didn't think it would do any good. Tim asked if the proposed letter should include description of the complaints? That we are considering recommending restriction of loud activities? We wish to balance noise with the neighbors' needs? Dave said we should be sure to invite Chief Ricca. Tim agreed that we'd like to provide input before the new contract is signed. Lee asked why anyone would want to have a party in this area? It's a bare, dusty area, without much going for it. Joel agreed that not much use is likely to occur. Willow said she is also concerned with the kids on bikes, some without helmets, as well as others on motorcycles on the airport property. Tim announced that the fee for our continued meetings at the Woods has been reduced from the proposed $35.00 to $15.00. We agreed to keep meeting at the Woods indefinitely. We scheduled the next meeting for August 21st at 9:00 am. The agenda will be the same as this meeting's, except that the Dragonfly Aviation item will no longer appear. Lee Edmundson recalled that we were planning to go to a system of sub-committees. He feels that would save much valuable time when the entire committee meets. Joel requested that we might get further clarification of the budget of the airport. He feels that there are some figures which make little sense. Tim agreed to place the possible appointment of sub-committees on the agenda. It was also agreed that the item might be placed near the top of the list, as it may affect other agenda items. As 11:00 am had passed, Trey moved that we adjourn the meeting. Tim seconded his motion. All agreed. The meeting was adjourned at 11:05 am. Respectfully submitted, Joel Bornstein, Secretary The agenda for this meeting is: Approve the minutes of the last meeting Communications (letters, FAXes, etc, sent/received since last meeting) Should flight training activity (including touch and go landings) at Little River be restricted in some way? Fireman's Park, noise and dust complaints from neighbors Appointment of subcommittees to work on the issues on this agenda. Possible cardlock fuel system at the airport, including environmental issues Possible minor modifications of the noise abatement policy, for clarity The airport budget, actual income and expenses Logging of traffic at the airport Timber harvests at the airport Airport erosion control Additional hangars at the airport Reports from subcommittees Public comment Report on finances (contributions received, expenses incurred) Agree on a date, time and place for the next meeting Agree on agenda for next meeting Members of the Little River Airport Advisory Committee ------------------------------------------------------ Joel Bornstein pilot, flight instructor lives near airport Dave Brewer pilot, lives near airport Lee Edmundson non-pilot Trey Loy non-pilot, lives near airport Tim Scully pilot, computer programmer, lives near airport commutes by air to Oakland weekly Willow Trent airport neighbor, non-pilot Susan Winding airport neighbor, non-pilot, business owner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6/16/98 email to DPW ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tim Tue Jun 16 06:27:50 1998 To: mendpw Subject: cardlock fuel, grass planting Cc: tim, townsend The Little River Airport Advisory Committee asked me to write to you regarding two issues which were discussed at our meeting last month. We understand that a cardlock fuel system is being considered for Little River, with an above-ground fuel tank. The committee would like to know what environmental impact/safety analysis has been done. Concern was expressed over possible earthquakes and fuel spills, for example. We discussed weed control, and agreed that we'd like to have information on alternatives to the use of herbacides. Would the use of a blowtorch be an acceptable alternative for controlling weeds in the cracks of the pavement? In any event, the committee voted unanimously to recommend with the test planting of Kovar Sheep Fescue, which the Ad Hoc Committee had discussed with DPW and Greg Guisti in 1996. It is our understanding that this grass won't grow over 8" high, will not require mowing, and should control erosion. If test plantings go well, then it may be worthwhile to consider seeding most of the open area of the airport. Thank you for your attention. Respectfully Yours, Tim Scully, Ph.D. Chair, Airport Advisory Committee --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6/23/98 reply from DPW --------------------------------------------------------------------------- E. C. CALVERT DIRECTOR OF TRANSPORTATION DIVISIONS Administration & Business Airports COUNTY OF MENDOCINO Engineering and Technical Assistance DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Land Improvement Transportation/Roads UKIAH, CALIFORNIA 95482 (707) 463-4363 FAX (707) 463-5474 23 June 1998 Tim Scully, Ph.D., Chair Little River Airport Advisory Committee RE: FUEL STORAGE WEED CONTROL LITTLE RIVER AIRPORT Dear Dr, Scully: We received your e-mail dated 16 June 1998 regarding two issues of concern to the Little River Airport Advisory Committee. The Committee expresses environmental and safety concerns regarding the proposed installation of an aboveground fuel storage tank at the Airport. We arc mandated to either remove or retrofit the underground fuel storage tank by the end of the year. After consideration, we have eliminated retrofitting this 17 years old tank, which is nearing its life expectancy. Replacement with another underground tank would be more costly and require on-going fees and testing requirements. Above ground storage tanks are being utilized in an increasing number of new installations and replacements, including at airports. Modern above ground tanks are double wall steel, UL listed for secondary containment of flammable liquids, meet Uniform Fire Code and National Fire Protection Association standards, and are rated for the seismic zone of the Airport. While no particular brand of tank has yet been chosen, the Committee can be assured that all of these safety concerns (and more) will be addressed in the selection process. All requirements of the California Environmental Quality Act will be followed in the process as well. The Committee also expresses concerns related to weed control at the Airport. Certainly the pilots serving on the Committee can attest to the extreme importance of controlling weeds, both on the pavement and around the runway lighting system. We have been using a small amount of Roundup to accomplish this control. To date we are not aware of an economically feasible alternative to this control method. The c-mail specifically mentions the possibility of using a blowtorch to control weeds in the cracks of the runway pavement. We have serious concerns about this treatment method. We expect that the efficacy of this form of treatment would be short-lived, requiring frequent repetition. The effect of this exposure would be to oxidize and degrade the runway pavement. At their 16 June 1998 meeting, the Board of Supervisors adopted a basic policy statement regarding integrated pest management that included the following provision: County departments will obtain professional advice from either the Agricultural Commissioner's office or the University of California Cooperative Extension Office to explore alternatives and seek best use direction before using any pesticide for the most efficacious and safest methods of pest management. County departments which apply pesticides shall maintain records of all pesticides applied. In the same motion, the Board specified that "information will be forwarded to the Little River Airport Advisory Committee to determine a way to reduce the amount of Roundup that is presently used at the Airport." Prior to scheduling additional pesticide applications at the Airport, the Airport Advisory Committee will work with the Department of Transportation, the Agricultural Commissioner's Office and/or the Cooperative Extension Office so that we can possibly reduce the amount of product applied and ensure that proper methods are utilized. The Committee also expressed interest in a test planting of Kovar Sheep Fescue. The test planting proposal was approved in concept by this Department at the Board Health, Welfare, Planning and Transportation Committee meeting with the ad-hoc Airport Advisory Committee on 15 July 1996. Correspondence in our file from 6 September 1996 indicates that Greg Giusti (UC Davis) volunteered to do three trial test plantings. Our approval of the test planting concept still stands. Please keep us informed of the progress and results of any such test plantings. If you have any questions regarding these matters, contact me at your convenience. Sincerely, E.C. Calvert, Director of Transportation By: Stanley Townsend Deputy Director cc: File 24-14A \\DPW_NT\PUBDATA\SharedWP\SLT\Word\Airport\LR\acmisc2.ltr.doc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7/8/98 letter to HWP&T ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Scully 7/8/98 Charles Peterson, 5th District Supervisor Patti Campbell, 4th District Supervisor Courthouse Ukiah, CA 95482 FAX (707) 463-4245 Dear Charles and Patti: I have a few Airport Advisory Committee questions for you. 1) The resolution forming the committee provides for us to elect alternate members. This issue has come up because some members have had trouble attending every meeting. Are we correct in believing that we can elect alternates and that alternates can vote when they are substituting for a missing member? 2) I have been assuming that you'd let us know if the Airport Advisory Committee needs to report to HWP&T. Is this correct? Are we on course as far as you can tell? 3) We have been working on Dragonfly Aviation's application for an FBO permit. We discussed conflict of interest issues (since Joel Bornstein is a competing flight instructor). We concluded that, per the County Counsel decision regarding FEC forms, since we only are advisory, it is not necessary for members with conflicts to recuse themselves, but that we would hilight any obvious conflicts in our recommendations. Do you concur with this policy? It sounds as though more "interesting" issues are headed our way, so we'd like to be sure we are on the right track. 4) Am I correct in believing that, if we propose a set of committee by-laws, that the Board will need to review and approve them? Or should HWP&T be involved? Thank you for your help. Respectfully Yours, Tim Scully, Ph.D., Chairman, Airport Advisory Committee -------------------------------------------------------------------- July 22 1998 FAX from Susan Winding -------------------------------------------------------------------- RECEIVED 97/22 15:30 1990 AT 7079374008 Jul-22-98 07:33A JOHN & SUSAN WINDING P.01 To: Tim Scully From: Susan Winding Date: July 21, 1998 1 had planned on being at the meeting this Friday, however my father had a massive stroke this eveing and I am flying to W.Va. tomorrow. As far as the issue surrounding Dragonfly Aviation, I voted to allow Dragonfly Aviation to operate out of LRAP because I don't see any way to legally prevent them from opening a business at the airport. I believe that Mr. Archibald's projected revenues are way out of line with his statement that 6 pilots have requested that he provide flight instruction. While I do not want to see increased air traffic at LRAP, the fact that both Mr. Archibald and Les have been approached by pilots for an alternative to Coast Flyers says that there are probably other underlying issues involved. I agree with Dave Brewer that the increased air traffic is a separate issue from the business decision. I would like to be involved in the discussion of touch and go's - the number a person can do; can they be eliminated; etc. If this has to be voted on at this meeting, my vote would be to eliminate them completely or have a maximum of 2 per student per day (including the original take-off and landing). I am not sure of pilot terminology, but a touch and go would include any type of landing or attempt to land. For example, if a student pilot came down toward the runway for a landing and then took off again without touching the landing strip, this would count as a touch and go. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- July 22 1998 FAX from Susan Winding ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RECEIVED 07/22 15:31 1998 AT 7079374008 Jul-22-98 07:33A JOHN & SUSAN WINDING Susan winding Little River Airport Advisory Committee Dear Committee Members: I am unable to attend the July 24 meeting, but I would like my vote regarding the Dragonfly Aviation application to be registered via this proxy. I am voting to recommend approval of their permit application. Yours. Susan Winding