The Little River Airport Advisory Committee (minutes, 12/18/98 meeting) A meeting of The Little River Airport Advisory Committee was held at the Woods Clubhouse on Friday, December 18, 1998, at 9:00 am. The agenda had been posted at the Little River Airport and at the Little River Post Office. Present at the meeting were committee members: Tim Scully, Dave Brewer, Willow Trent, Susan Winding, Lee Edmundson, Trey Loy and Joel Bornstein. Also participating in the meeting were: Dick Ahrens, Grant Wheeler, Naomi Jarvie, Paula Cohen, Sam Ruczak, Joel Blocksom, Lucinda Clark, Will Groham, Richard Gallagher, Don Abels and Les Proctor. The minutes of the last meeting were approved, after discussion of a possible correction: The non-aviation use subcommittee determined after the last meeting that the cost of the survey will be approximately $1000.00. Since this was learned after the meeting, we agreed to let the minutes stand. Tim Scully read the mail and Email of the past month. It is appended below. Willow Trent asked if the Mendocino County Board of Supervisors had made a decision on the Firepersons' Park? Tim said he would check into it. Lee Edmundson reported that he has been in contact with Bob Becker of Sonoma County Airport, regarding the possible AWOS for the Little River Airport. Since his airport has a new ASOS, they no longer need their AWOS. It may be donated to the Little River Airport, but he mentioned that the Coast Hospital is also asking for the unit. Dan Andrews is the contact person. The maintenance cost for the AWOS was about $1000 per month. It requires an FCC licensed repair person. Tim Scully discussed the differences between and the features of AWOS and ASOS. Trey Loy pointed out that AWOS gives the barometric pressure and therefore may expand the use of the proposed instrument approach. He wondered if it will have an effect on the new helicopter approach? Tim clarified the hours of use of the GPS approach. He explained that commercial use of the airport requires up-to-date weather information. They must know the visibility, etc. In answer to someone's question, Dave Brewer stated that all GPS approaches are still non-precision, with the exception of a couple of experimental approaches. Lee Edmundson said that the hospital wants the AWOS. Joel Bornstein said that the altimeter setting from the hospital would be usable at the Little River Airport. Tim Scully said there would be no penalty for using it. Les Proctor said that Reach won't pay for the AWOS. The problem is servicing the unit. Les will get the necessary permit to do the required checks. He's willing to do this with no additional fee to the County. The testing process is mostly one of comparing the output with the desired results. Various units have different maintenance costs. Grant Wheeler said the AWOS would make the approach more available. Richard Gallagher noted that the AWOS might open the airport to commercial use. We agreed, but noted that such use is possible now. The hours of unavailability will still apply. We moved on to the discussion of the motorbike use of the airport property. Trey Loy said that the use of the Little River Airport for riding and the building of jumps happened over a period of time. There has been some vandalism recently. Joel Blocksum read a letter signed by the three riders present. It is appended below. The letter proposes the construction of a motorcross track at the Little River Airport. Les Proctor said that the biggest obstacles are noise and liability. The riders must stay clear of the aircraft operating areas. He said that he rides dirt bikes himself and understands the needs of the local riders. Les has had problems with retaliation after the riders have been confronted. Also, he feels that a designated area might help to keep the motorbikes out of the areas where they might present a hazard to aircraft. Grant Wheeler asked if there would be any tree removal required? "No," was the answer. Les said the jumps present the greatest liability. Dave Brewer said that liability is the critical issue and that the County will likely require fencing of the area. Les said we should talk to the County Risk Manager. Lee Edmundson asked about the times of use of the proposed area? The riders responded that the use would probably be between the hours of 10am and 4pm on weekends and some after school. Trey described the jumps that exist. There is a great variety. He had printouts showing the location and description of various other off-road vehicle parks, which he gave to the riders. Dave Brewer asked if there are any current complaints? Les said there are. Joel Bornstein said he was at the Little River Airport office recently when a neighbor, Ig Yakoushkin, arrived to complain about the riding that had been going on. He said he doesn't mind the noise when he is indoors with the windows closed, but he is greatly disturbed when he is working in his garden or when the windows of his house are open. The police arrived and spoke with him. They explained that they really can't do anything about the riding unless there is a complaint filed against them by the airport authorities. Dave Thorpe, who was on duty, said he is uncomfortable with the idea of charging the boys with a crime. Grant commented that as other sites are becoming unavailable for riding, the use at Little River Airport might increase. Tim Scully said that helmet use must be a requirement. How about insurance? Lee Edmundson cautioned the riders that the government is very slow in getting things done. He moved that we accept the report presented by the riders, that we forward the question to the County level and that we make the issue part of our proposed survey. Trey seconded Lee's motion, with a comment about liability. Joel asked the riders if they would be willing to accept a controlled track design? "Yes, they would," although one of them said he likes jumping the best. Sam Ruczak said he thinks the planes make more noise. Les said the problem is that the bikes make a continuous noise where the planes are gone in a minute or two. Dave said the bikes impact fewer people. He doesn't hear them. The question was called: all were in favor of the resolution, but Willow Trent, who abstained from voting. Les Proctor said he has no update on the fuel system. He is still trying to get a truck to temporarily dispense gasoline. Dave Brewer is still working on the report of traffic at Little River Airport. He will continue. On the ground cover issue: Tim Scully has contacted Greg Giusti. Trey Loy has an offer of help with the planting site preparation from Will Groham, one of the riders. Les will ask Greg about the timing of the planting...have we missed the window for planting in this season? He wants to know if the grass will go to seed and attract birds or deer? On hangars: Trey Loy called members of the hangar subcommittee. The questions are: where to put them? How will they be paid for? Possible County-owned hangars. Tim Scully asked what would convince the County to invest in hangars? Les Proctor said there is state funding (loans) available. Grant Wheeler asked about the location of possible County-owned hangars? Trey said there are different construction options, depending on who builds the hangars. Tim said there are 3 possibilities: 1-Keith Paulson or another investor builds hangars which would revert to County ownership; 2-Individual owners build their own; 3-The County builds the new hangars. Trey wants County control. He thinks the County should do all business, including non-aviation development. Lee Edmundson said he thinks that subcommittees should present options to the main committee; not make decisions. Susan Winding asked Les about County funding and if this is going to open doors to more development? Joel Bornstein said that although he is a member of the hangar subcommittee, he has not been contacted. He said that Trey's report is an individual effort and doesn't constitute a subcommittee report. Richard Gallagher assured us that the committee would actually meet before our next meeting. He has some funding information. Lee Edmundson said we should use the master plan to locate the new hangars. What type should come first? Trey pointed out that the location was a serious cost consideration. Lee said he wants general ideas only. He wants to hear the options. He wants the subcommittee to keep its vision narrow. Tim said he thinks that the site preparation costs will approximately equal the construction costs, if only a few hangars are built. Trey wants more information. Willow Trent asked if the other subcommittees actually meet? Lee Edmundson responded that the survey subcommittee has met twice and that they are working on the report. Tim Scully suggested that all subcommittees set meeting times before we leave today's meeting. On the Survey: Lee Edmundson said he got the estimated costs. He reformatted them and sent a FAX to Gene Calvert, head of the Dept. of Transportation. Gene is very interested in the survey and will see about funding the effort. Lee spoke to Supervisor Elect David Colfax who feels that a random survey is adequate. Lee feels that a general survey is necessary. Les Proctor said that it is easier to restrict development than to buy properties at a later time. Development should be restricted within the 60 Db area. Tim said that area is close in to the airport. Trey Loy said that the 72 acres designated for non-aviation use should be surveyed. Also, the neighborhood survey should be published in the newspapers. Lee Edmundson feels that newspaper space is expensive and that the option would save little. He would insist on an advertisement style, rather than a column format. Susan Winding asked clarification of the mentioned $40,000 survey? That is the County's project. Our survey is to find if the more extensive survey is needed. We agreed that the next meeting of the Little River Airport Advisory Committee will be on January 15, 1999 at 9am at The Woods clubhouse. The February meeting will be on the 19th. Lee Edmundson wants to hear the flight training subcommittee's problems. Naomi Jarvie asked that we invite public input on the motorcross concept, before making our recommendation to the County. Lee Edmundson assured her that after the survey is completed, there will be a public meeting. Susan Winding said we should contact risk management at an early date. Tim Scully agreed emphatically. We spoke of the difficulty that Fifth District Supervisor Elect David Colfax might have in getting to our meeting. Dave Brewer suggested that we have a subcommittee meet with him at a location convenient to him. Trey Loy and Lee Edmundson said they think it appropriate that he come to our meeting. Trey Loy moved that Tim Scully be asked to invite Supervisor Elect David Colfax to the next meeting. Tim produced an information package which he proposed sending to Supervisor Elect Colfax. The idea met with strong opposition from Lee Edmundson and Dave Brewer. We agreed to continue most items on this meeting's agenda to next month's meeting. A collection was made among the committee members to pay for the meeting place. Since our allotted time had expired, the meeting was declared adjourned at 11 am. We agreed to meet next at 9am on 1/15/98. The agenda for this meeting is: Approve the minutes of the last meeting Communications (letters, FAXes, etc, sent/received since last meeting) Brief history & current status for David Colfax Reach helicopter - can they install an Automated Weather Observing System? Airport Master Plan Update - and environmental report for Master Plan, should we start work? Should flight training activity (including touch and go landings) at Little River be restricted in some way? Fuel system replacement: status report The airport budget, actual income and expenses Logging of traffic at the airport Airport erosion control, grass planting Additional hangars at the airport Non-aviation uses of the airport Dirt bikes on the airport and related liability issue Reports from subcommittees Public comment Report on finances (contributions received, expenses incurred) Agree on a date, time and place for the next meeting Agree on agenda for next meeting Members of the Little River Airport Advisory Committee ------------------------------------------------------ Joel Bornstein pilot, flight instructor lives near airport Dave Brewer pilot, lives near airport Lee Edmundson non-pilot Trey Loy non-pilot, lives near airport Tim Scully pilot, computer programmer, lives near airport commutes by air to Oakland weekly Willow Trent airport neighbor, non-pilot Susan Winding airport neighbor, non-pilot, business owner ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11/29/98 email from Tim Scully to Chuck Boyer, DPW ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tim Sun Nov 29 15:38:36 1998 To: mendpw Subject: Re: airport finances Cc: tim You may recall that I requested income and expense data for Little River Airport on behalf of the Airport Advisory Committee back in April, and you forwarded the data you had on hand. At that time, you only had FY97-8 data thru March. The committee has asked me to request the actual totals for the fiscal year which ended in June 1998, and any partial data you have available for the subsequent months. Here is what we've done with the data you sent initialy: 11/18/98 Little River Airport P and L Notes YTD* Estimate see Note 1 Fiscal Year 97-98 97-98 96-97 95-96 94-95 INCOME Fuel & oil Fuel $6,794 $9,058 $9,773 $12,130 $10,973 Oil $115 $154 $231 $192 $217 ------------------------------------------ S/T Fuel & Oil $6,909 $9,212 $10,004 $12,323 $11,190 Tiedown Fees Overnight $3,255 $4,340 $6,173 $5,905 $4,606 Monthly $1,330 $1,773 $3,720 $7,090 $11,619 see Note 2 ------------------------------------------ S/T Tiedown Fees $4,585 $6,113 $9,893 $12,995 $16,225 Auto & RV Parking Monthly $1,445 $1,926 $2,660 $2,950 $2,410 Yearly $2,025 $2,700 $4,700 $6,800 $7,900 ------------------------------------------ S/T Auto & RV Park $3,470 $4,626 $7,360 $9,750 $10,310 see Note 3 Hangar Fees County $6,910 $9,213 $9,545 $11,420 $8,050 Private $9,240 $12,320 $10,000 $7,455 $1,240 ------------------------------------------ S/T Hangar Fees $16,150 $21,533 $19,545 $18,875 $9,290 Miscellaneous $0.00 $0.00 $445 $270 $300 ------------------------------------------ Total Income $31,114 $41,486 $47,247 $54,213 $47,315 EXPENSES Communication $582 $699 $645 $607 $771 Pac Bell Household $1,981 $2,378 $2,219 $1,998 $1,775 FtBragg Disposal Insurance $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $6,837 see Note 5 Maintenance $2,782 $5,000 $10,709 $9,663 $11,019 see Note 6 Office Expense $0.00 $0.00 $266 $127 $344 see Note 7 Architectural & Engineering Svc $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $348 $0.00 Professional & Special Services $31,720 $40,570 $35,728 $36,147 $36,268 see NOTE 8 Pubs & Legal Notices $678 $678 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 Recruiting ads? Special Departmental Expense $56 $56 $272 $19 $3,312 see NOTE 9 Utilities $1,664 $1,997 $2,138 $1,570 $1,998 PG&E Operating Transfers Out $0.00 $5,000 $5,000 $5,000 $5,000 see NOTE 10 -------------------------------------------- Total Expense $39,467 $56,380 $56,981 $55,483 $67,325 Profit (Loss) ($8,353) ($14,894) ($9,733) ($1,269) ($20,010) NOTE 1: 97-98YTD = thru Mar Fiscal Year is July-June 97-98Est =(97-98YTD)-l.333 NOTE 2: Why did monthly tiedowns fall so fast and far? NOTE 3: Why so low last two Years? NOTE 4: 97-98 EXPENSES Est = DMB WAG NOTE 5: Must have been separate liability policy in 94-95 NOTE 6: Rossi's, Baxman, Big 4 Rents, R.Jones Elec. NOTE 7: "Xerox charges", Savings Bank of Mendo NOTE 8: A/P Supervisor, plus $10k once a year "AdminSvcs for A/P" NOTE 9: Inventory adjustment in 94-95 NOTE 10: Transfer to capital budget to match state grant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11/29/98 email from Greg Giusti to Tim Scully ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Giusti [mailto:] Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 7:27 PM To: tim Subject: Re: airport project >Do you still plan to get to Little River Airport for a test planting? > >Les proctor, the airport supervisor, has Monday and Tuesday off, but >otherwise would like to meet you and is willing to help. Tim, I still hope to get the project in. My wife just had some surgery that required my attention. If all works well, I hope to contact Mr. Proctor this Wed. thanks for the gentle reminder. Greg Giusti Forest Advisor UC Cooperative Extension-Mendocino/Lake Counties Ag. Ctr./ Courthouse Ukiah, Ca., 95482 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12/17 email from Tim Scully to Greg Giusti ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tim Thu Dec 17 19:45:02 1998 To: gagiusti Subject: Little River Airport Cc: tim I hope your wife is doing well. Les Proctor is easiest to contact Thursday through Sunday at xxx ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12/18/98 email from Grant Wheeler ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Grant M. Wheeler [gwheeler] Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 9:34 PM To: tim Subject: Telephone call from Tray this afternoon. Hi Tim, I received a call from Tray late this afternoon asking if I could help identify information from the I-Net regarding off road vehicle information. It was my understanding in my brief conversation with Tray that the County had stopped the locals (mostly kids) from using the airport property and further that some parents will be attending Friday's meeting. I dug up a few sites and printed out brief information from the sites that will be provided to Tray before the meeting. This e-mail is for informational purposes only and to document the sites via e-mail. Hope things are going well with you. Grant http://www.corva.org/ California Off Road Vehicle Association http://www.lostcoast4x4.org/forest.htm Article on Lost Coast http://sidekickoffroad.com/public.htm Public Land Issues http://sidekickoffroad.com/catalog.htm Catalog Information http://www.off-road.com/ Off Road Network and Info -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12/18/98 letter from motorcross riders to AAC -------------------------------------------------------------------------- December 18, 1998 TO THE LITTLE RIVER AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMITTEE: We are writing this letter to request permission to build a motorcross track and riding area at the Little River Airport. There is not a safe place in this area for us to safely ride our bikes. We would like to build a motorcross track on a Portion of the property adjacent to the airport. We understand the issues of liability, safety, maintenance and the noise disruption. We acknowledge our responsibility to ride safely and be considerate of the those who live in the neighborhood. We would like to present the following proposal to you for discussion. The proposal is as follows: 1. We will work with this Advisory Committee to plan and build a track for motorbikes. 2. We will respect the property. 3. The motorcross riders will be responsible for maintenance of the track We will maintain the track, keep it free of hazards and trash. We will bring a trash can to the site to reduce litter in the area. 4. We will work out an agreement with the neighbors to establish reasonable riding hours so as not to create an additional noise problem. We understand there are liability issues surrounding this sport. We take a lot of time to make sure our bikes are in good condition. For our personal safety we always wear protective gear, helmets, chest protectors, foot gear and padded clothing. We will encourage those who use the track to do the same. We will help put up a sign that informs users of the necessity of safety, protective gear and courtesy to others. Motorcross riding is important to us. This is our recreational choice. We do not drink, use drugs, cause damage or destruction to other people's property. We are committed to doing what it may take to have a place for us to ride. We love this sport and want to have a safe riding area. We hope there is a way for us to work together. Thank you for your time and consideration. Joel Blocksom Will Groham Sam Ruczak