Minutes of LRAAC meeting of 18 February 2000 1. Meeting opened at 9:02am. 2. Present: Tim Scully, Dick Ahrens, Dave Brewer, Willow Trent, Trey Loy, Susan Winding, Tom Goncharoff. 3. Correspondence: 3.1 Airport signs. 3.2 Update of Hangar Needs Survey. 4. Hangar Report, draft framework: 4.1 Meinershagen Report: copy to Ahrens. 4.2 Format of draft report: change from "Chapter 8 of the Airport Master Plan" to "Hangar Report #2". Delete "Overview" and "Section 8.1". 4.3 Add actual wordings of BOS orders. 4.4 Need written plusses and minuses of each location. 4.5 Need assumptions for proposed hangar sizes. 4.6 Need diagrams showing houses and trees. 4.7 Need to add "Noise". 4.8 Need to add "Vegetation Clearance". 4.9 Need to add "Lines of Sight". 4.10 Need to add "Cost Summaries" Section. 4.11 Need to add "appearance" and uniformity". 4.12 Need to add room for an additional ten hangars after a first ten hangars, for a total of twenty. 4.13 Tasks scheduled: 4.13.1 Obtain a copy of the lease agreement: Tim Scully 4.13.2 Paragraph 8.2.3: Dave Brewer 4.13.3 Paragraph 8.2.6: Dave Brewer 4.13.4 Paragraph 8.2.7: Dave Brewer 4.13.5 Paragraph 8.2.8: Trey Loy 4.13.6 Paragraph 8.2.9: Trey Loy 4.13.7 Measurements: Dave Brewer and Trey Loy 4.13.8 Location descriptions: Trey Loy 5. Meeting closed 10:55am The committee's next meeting will be from 9am to 11am on Friday March 17 at the Clubhouse at The Woods, 43300 Little River Airport Rd. The agenda for this meeting is: Approve the minutes of the last meeting Communications (letters, FAXes, etc, sent/received since last meeting) Additional hangars at the airport will be the main focus of this and the next few meetings. Reports from subcommittees Public comment Agree on a date, time and place for the next meeting Agree on agenda for next meeting Members of the Little River Airport Advisory Committee ------------------------------------------------------ Dick Ahrens pilot, airport neighbor Dave Brewer pilot, lives near airport Tom Goncharoff Trey Loy non-pilot, lives near airport Tim Scully pilot, computer programmer, lives near airport commutes by air to Oakland weekly Willow Trent airport neighbor, non-pilot Susan Winding airport neighbor, non-pilot, business owner ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lrairpt Sent: January 21, 2000 12:01 PM To: Tim Scully Subject: Signs Tim the price is just for the signs NO post or anything else. Dave Thorpe Airport Supervisor ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Scully Sent: January 25, 2000 6:34 AM To: 'Chuck Boyer'; 'Stan Townsend' Cc: 'Little River Airport'; Tim Scully Subject: Airport signs Dave Thorpe and I have been working together to collect information for the purchasing of informational signs for the airport. I sent the proposed wording to the FAA district office in Burlingame. The FAA provided us with the Advisory Circulars which provide detailed specifications for these signs, and Dave has obtained a price quote from the aircraft sign shop in Santa Rosa. In an email dated 2/18/99 you asked me to have the signs made and send the bill to you at DOT, following which you'd have the signs installed. The committee suggested that I communicate the cost estimate to you to confirm that this is how you'd like us to proceed (and that you don't want the County sign shop to make these). A total of 5 signs are needed. One is a runway identification sign needed at the central taxiway, which will cost $98 plus tax. Three are 2x3 foot informational signs regarding noise abatement which will cost $248 each plus tax and the last is an informational sign regarding noise abatement 18x36" which will cost $186.50 plus tax. The total is $1026.50 for the five signs, without mounting stakes. If you need more detailed information, I can FAX you a picture of the proposed signs and send you details on colors, etc. If we should proceed in accord with your 2/18/99 email, just let me know. I want to avoid surprising you. Thank you again for helping to keep the airport safe and healthy. Respectfully Yours, Tim Scully, Ph.D. Chair, LRAAC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Boyer Sent: January 26, 2000 11:07 AM To: tim.scully ; townsens Cc: lrairpt Subject: RE: Airport signs Tim, Please order the signs and have the bill sent to me for payment. Have the signs put where Dave has access to them (i.e. the Quonset hut) and let me know they are there and I will get the road crew to install them. Thank you for all that you have done on this project. Chuck ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend Sent: January 28, 2000 9:58 AM To: Tim Scully (E-mail) Cc: Chuck Boyer (E-mail) Subject: Airport Signs Tim, Just got a phone call from Patti Campbell. Apparently some local sign makers are up in arms about the signs being made in Santa Rosa. Did you check with locals to see if they can make these? Have they been ordered yet? If not, maybe we need to rethink. Let me know. Thanks. -- Stanley Townsend, Director Mendocino County Department of Transportation 340 Lake Mendocino Drive Ukiah CA 95482-9432 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Scully Sent: January 28, 2000 10:49 AM To: 'Stanley Townsend'; Tim Scully Cc: Chuck Boyer (E-mail); 'Little River Airport' Subject: RE: Airport Signs The signs haven't been ordered yet. I'm going to ask Patti for the name of the local sign maker and I can provide that person with all of the FAA specifications, if you like. They may lose interest when they see all the specifications, or we may find a valuable new local resource. Is it ok to proceed like this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stanley Townsend [townsens Sent: January 28, 2000 11:11 AM To: tim.scully Cc: boyerc; lrairpt Subject: RE: Airport Signs Yes. Thanks. -- Stanley Townsend, Director Mendocino County Department of Transportation 340 Lake Mendocino Drive Ukiah CA 95482-9432 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Scully Sent: January 28, 2000 11:28 AM To: 'Supervisor Patti Campbell' Cc: Tim Scully; 'Little River Airport' Subject: FW: Airport Signs Patti, from the email trail below, you can see that Stan Townsend has asked me to investigate local sign makers for the airport signs. Can you tell me who expressed interest in doing this work so I can contact them? There are detailed FAA specifications which the signs must meet, which is why we went to a sign shop which routinely makes airport signs and is familiar with FAA specs, but if the local shop is prepared to meet these specs, it would be great to have a local vendor. Respectfully Yours, Tim Scully, Ph.D. Chair, LRAAC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patti Campbell Sent: February 01, 2000 3:25 PM To: tim.scully Subject: Re: Airport Signs Tim ...Thanks for your email. The person in question is Rick Sacks of The Sign Shop. He is the sort of person who would tell you immediately is he was qualified to do specific signs such as for the airport. What he and other locals want is mainly to be asked. When I went to him for an order he told me that another vendor's sign would work better for me. But, he has never forgotten that I had the courtesy to ask a local vendor firs. Let me know if this helps...Patti... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lrairpt Sent: February 02, 2000 8:12 AM To: tim.scully Subject: Re: Airport Signs YES It is do you wish me to keep trying? ----- Original Message ----- From: Is this the vendor you have been trying to contact? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patti Campbell > Sent: February 01, 2000 3:25 PM > To: tim.scully > Subject: Re: Airport Signs > > > Tim ...Thanks for your email. The person in question is Rick Sacks of The > Sign Shop. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Scully Sent: February 02, 2000 8:25 AM To: 'lrairpt'; Tim Scully Subject: RE: Airport Signs Please. Or, if you have his mailing address and can send it to me, I can write to him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Scully From: lrairpt Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:13 AM To: tim.scully Subject: Re: Airport Signs The Sign Shop Mendocino ca. 95456. Phone # Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Scully From: Tim Scully Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:49 PM To: 'Little River Airport' Cc: Tim Scully Subject: letter I sent to the sign shop Tim Scully 2/4/2000 The Sign Shop Mendocino, CA 95456 Dear Rick: Thank you for talking with me on the telephone today. I am enclosing copies of two Advisory Circulars which the FAA sent to us when we inquired about approval for these signs: AC 150/5345-44F "Specification for Taxiway and Runway Signs" and AC 150/5340-18C "Standards for Airport Sign Systems." We are asking for a bid on a total of five signs. There are four Style 4 "information signs" signs, per AC 150/5340-18C section 11. This means they should have black lettering on a yellow background. They must be retroreflective and should meet the specifications of AC 150/5345-44F. Three of the 4 information signs should be 2'x3': - "No intersection takeoffs - noise abatement". - "Please do RWY 11 runups here. Noise sensitive houses to the Northwest." - "Left turn on departure for noise abatement. Safety supercedes noise abatement. Please avoid right-hand and straight out departures." The fourth information sign should be 18"x3' - "Noise Sensitive Neighborhood. See details of noise abatment procedure in the airport office." The fifth sign is a Style 4 "Runway holding position sign" per AC 150/5340-18C Section 5. This means it has a white inscription on a red background. Both colors much be retroreflective and must meet the specifications in AC 150/5340-18C. - "<-29 11->" I am enclosing diagrams of the layout of each of the five signs. You can either contact me or Dave Thorpe, who is airport supervisor. Dave is at 937-5129. My contact numbers are above. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Yours, Tim Scully, Ph.D. Chair, LRAAC ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lrairpt Sent: February 04, 2000 2:14 PM To: Tim Scully Subject: Signs Tim that looks great let me know what happens. Thank you for writing the letter. Dave Thorpe Airport Supervisor ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lrairpt Sent: February 07, 2000 9:15 AM To: Tim Scully Subject: Signs Tim I just talked To Rick from the sign shop and he has a question about the red and white 29-11 sign that I can not answer. So if you could call him or me it maybe of more help. Thank you Dave Thorpe Airport Supervisor 937-5129 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lrairpt Sent: February 08, 2000 9:10 AM To: Tim Scully Subject: Signs Tim just got a fax from the sign shop, and understand that you got an email with information also. I lost my email from him so if you could forward a copy to me it would be nice. His price is 1112.50 which is the same as the shop in Santa Rosa after the new size for the 29/11 sign. Will talk to you more on the weekend, about this. Dave Thorpe Airport Supervisor Just an after though but I think that we should go with "The Sign Shop" this will keep everyone happy. But just my though. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lrairpt Sent: February 08, 2000 9:22 AM To: Tim Scully Subject: Sorry Tim the new size is 18X48 as per FAA regs. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Brewer Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 4:18 PM To: Dick Ahrens; Tim; Little River Airport Subject: Hangar Waiting List Update YES Name Comments ------------------------- 1 John Merriman Has three planes, two hangars. Thinks $200 is too much to stay on the list 2 Joel Bornstein 5 Judith Barry 7 Ralph Ascencio Rents part of Gallagher's hangar. Yes to both. 8 Eric Miller No plane now but would pay $200 to stay on the list. Wants to get back to flying. 11 Jim Hordyk Owns a 172 on leaseback to Coast Flyers 19 Paul Klingborg Per Richard Gallagher, he is very interested. Has plane at Gnoss. Left a message on his machine. 21 Richard Ahrens Just bought a Citabria 23 Greg Beaver Owns a new 172 based in UKI. Has a pending offer on a house on the coast 26 Ralph Douglass Yes, although rent sounds high. Would rather move his hangar to a pad at O48. 27 David Thorpe Owns a 172 28 Ed Rantala Has a plane in Doc's hangar. Thinks $200 rent is a bit high. 30 Bruce Raabe Has been communicating with Tim about building a hangar. No response to email. 31 Thomas Naylor A new addition to the list per Dave Thorpe 2/11/00. Would pay $200 to stay on the list. NO -- 12 Wayne Fields No longer actively looking for a plane 13 Richard Gallagher Bought RJ's hangar 14 Kent Pember Not interested at $200/month. He's renting now for $150. 17 Myron MacNeil Bought Pete Hutchins hangar with Dave Nova 20 Michael Dell'Ara Built the last hangar in the row. 22 Susan Jordan Needs a hangar when/if she moves to the coast" Not now. 24 Robert Smiley Per his housemate he sold his plane. Left a message for him. 25 Richard Kohler Deceased 29 Dave Nova See MacNeil above Probably YES ------------ 9 Joseph Lennox Interested per Joel Bornstein. Left a message on his machine Probably NO ----------- 3 James Alford Per Andy 5 years ago, "No plane and no interest" Phone disconnected 4 Wallace Nispel Has his 177 for sale per Dave Thorpe. Phone disconnected No Information -------------- 6 Larry Rogers Left a message on his machine 10 Frank Beasoechea Used to work at the hospital. Maybe in Healdsburg per Joel. Phone disconnected. 15 John Dorvin No phone number or address. 16 Martha Stafford No phone number or address. 18 William Mazzucco No phone number or address. Last updated 2/17/00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- handout from Dick Ahrens, initial partial draft ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8 - BUILDING REQUIREMENTS OVERVIEW This chapter examines the building projected to be required at Little River Airport over the next twenty years. The requirements are assessed in terms of the types of facilities to be accommodated and the constraints upon where they can be located. Alternative concepts for the arrangement of facilities are discussed. The chapter is divided into three main headings: Section 8.1 Aviation-related Uses - Aircraft Parking Section 8.2 Aviation-related Uses - Hangars Section 8.3 Non-aviation-related Uses (Not written yet) 8.1 AVIATION-RELATED USE - AIRCRAFT PARKING - TIEDOWNS OVERVIEW The present (number{#}) tiedowns are considered adequate for the next twenty years, based upon the expected minimal growth of aircraft traffic during that period. Aircraft parking outside is adequate every day of the year except the one day of the Firemen's Barbecue in July, when some aircraft are parked off the paved areas. 8.2 AVIATION-RELATED USE - AIRCRAFT PARKING - HANGARS OVERVIEW On 20 September 1999, Mendocino County Supervisors Patti Campbell and Tom Lucier, sitting as the Planning, Transportation, Health, and Welfare Subcommittee, asked the Little River Airport Advisory Committee to prepare a report on new hangars at the airport. In response, the Little River Airport Advisory Committee has concluded that the present six (6) County-owned hangars plus (16) privately-owned hangars are not adequate to meet the demands of the next twenty years. There is a real demand for a few more hangars to be built. All of the locations allotted for hangars by the 1990 Little River Airport Master Plan have been used, and more are needed. The rest of this Section discusses the history, need, and options for further hangars at Little River Airport. 8.2.1 HANGARS HISTORY Because Little River is close to the ocean, aircraft owners are strongly motivated to find hangar space for their aircraft, to protect the aircraft from corrosion. There are only a few County-owned hangars, with space for six aircraft. There is a long waiting list for these hangars, perhaps as long as 10 or 20 years. The County has not had funds to build more hangars. In 1981 the County began allowing the construction of privately-owned hangars on County property. Since then there have been 16 privately-owned hangars built at various times, mostly with slightly varying lease terms. The original leases were for 10 years. Private hangar owners currently pay $60 per month for each single and $80 per month for each twin engine aircraft in their hangars, in addition to paying property taxes on the airplane(s) and hangar, and a possessory interest tax on the land under the hangar. The rental ("tie-down") fees from private hangars account for about 25% of airport operating revenue. The various taxes are not counted as airport revenue. The Mendocino County Board of Supervisors, acting at their regular meeting of 3 May 1994, accepted the Planning and Transportation Subcommittee's recommendations that provided direction to: 1) convert all aircraft hangars to County ownership after July 1, 1999. Hangar owners were given 5 years advance notice in May 1994 that they would have the option of removing their hangars or selling to the County at depreciated cost. 2) the County ..... using private financing, will develop additional area and subsequently provide (as warranted by demand) aircraft hangars that will be available (by lease) to aircraft owners and remain under County ownership. The Department of Public Works in their Budget and Program Justification report of 1995-1996 concerning Little River Airport Budget (BU No. 3060 General Fund) and the Little River Airport "Special Aviation Fund Budget" (BU No. 3090) stated that there were no funds to even study the above directive by the Board. In 1995, a Little River Airport Ad hoc Airport Advisory Committee was formed. In 1996, this Ad hoc Advisory Committee submitted a Report on Little River Airport hangars. The bulk of this report focused on the Board's 3 May 1994 directive to convert all privately-owned hangars to County ownership by 1 July 1999. This Report argued that wholesale conversion of hangar ownership was not feasible for many reasons, chief among which was the lack of financial incentive. The conversion notice has since been rescinded. Privately-owned hangars were not built during the life of the seizure notice. Since the rescension of the seizure notice, one hangar has been built in the one spot left. The lease for that spot calls for the hangar to become County property over a period of about 15 years, in lieu of rental fees for that period. On 20 September 1999, Mendocino County Supervisors Patti Campbell and Tom Lucier, sitting as the Planning, Transportation, Health, and Welfare Subcommittee, asked the Little River Airport Advisory Committee to prepare a report on new hangars at the airport. 8.2.2 DEMAND FOR HANGARS Rate of construction. Brewer Report (See appendix 8-A for text). Most of the 30 people shown on the County list for rental hangars were contacted and questioned on their present needs and intentions. The Brewer Report concludes that there is a real demand for about ten (10) new hangars, as of January, 2000. Fees for staying on the list. Signed lease agreements. 8.2.3 TYPES & STYLES OF HANGARS There are four basic styles of hangars in common use. These are: single hangars, single T-hangars, nested back to back T-hangars, row hangars. See Figure 8-18, page 99-820, for plan views of these four types. Relative costs Type of hangar doors, and their relative costs Size of hangar, and size aircraft Concrete foundation Paved apron Drainage Weatherproofing in harsh coastal climate Maintenance and related costs Utilities: telephone, electrical, water. 8.2.4 LOCATIONS The space allocated by the 1990 Master Plan for additional hangars is north of the taxiway, on the other side of a very deep drainage ditch. This ditch will have to be bridged and a taxiway built before more hangars can be built. Estimates of the cost of doing this vary from $60,000 (private) to $300,000 (County). The Ad Hoc Committee raised this issue in the County Planning, Transportation, Health and Welfare Committee meetings. The two Supervisors on the Planning, Transportation, Health and Welfare Committee asked the Ad Hoc Committee to make a recommendation regarding the hangar problem, keeping in mind the County's dire need of increased revenue. Some of the non-pilots who have been involved in Ad Hoc Committee meetings have expressed discomfort over allowing private citizens to build privately owned hangars on public property. They have also expressed concern over whether the fees charged private hangar owners are high enough. There has also been discussion about the possibility of building more County-owned hangars, possibly with a loan from the State. After paying off the loan, these would be an additional source of airport revenue. At the current fee schedule, each additional County hangar would garner $1500 per year for the County after the initial cost has been repaid. Sites: see Chart 8-1, page 99-803, for five possible new hangar location sites, marked A through E. Extent of Paving from taxiway to hangar site. Access from the main taxiway to several of the areas is a financial concern. It is difficult to obtain financing for interconnecting pavement without applying for a grant, as this type of paving cannot be repaid through rental fees. Costs associated with locations. Site A requires either a) the removal of one hangar and its pad, or b) the bridging of a major drainage ditch. Site B requires the removal of a small hill. Topography, vegetation Soil Drainage 8.2.5 MAPS OF LOCATIONS Overall: see Figure 8.1, page 99-804 5 Locations: see Figure 8.1, page 99-804 8.2.6 LOCATION COSTS Site preparation Paving 8.2.7 HANGAR COSTS Single Single T Nested back to back T Row 8.2.8 FINANCING & OWNERSHIP Public Financing: the County finances construction of new hangars, and leases these hangars to aircraft owners on a first-come, first-served basis, as called for by the Board's 3 May 1994 directive. The types of County financing are: State loan Private bank loan Bond measure Privately Owned: the County continues to lease prepared lots for construction of privately-owned hangars, their pads, and their approach aprons. Private financing: the County leases unimproved land or improved multiple hangar sites to a private developer who then constructs hangars to be leased for profit. Issues include: Lease agreement terms Length of agreement Cost of leased land Cost of rental hangars to aircraft owners Reversion to County ownership. Would the developer be able to sell his interest to another private individual? How long would the lease be until reversion? Building Capitalization Socialization Reversion Clause 8.2.9 RENTAL RATES Mortgage Maintenance 8.2.10 LEASE AGREEMENTS Standardization Addition of Insurance Reversion 8.2.11 COUNTY HANGAR POLICY Existing Rental Hangars Existing Private Hangars Future Conversion to County ownerhsip Appraisal Reimbursement New Hangars 8.2.12 MINORITY REPORT Little River Airport Advisory Committee member Mr. Trey Loy thinks that it is in the public interest that all aircraft owners have fair and equal access to newly available hangars on a first-come, first-served basis. The turnover of privately-owned hangars is based upon the highest bidder. Therefore Mr. Loy thinks that there should not be any privately-owned hangars at Little River Airport. Majority Report Minority Report 8.2.14 APPENDICES A. Brewer Report B. Meinershagen Report