MINUTES OF 4-28-00 LRAAC MEETING 1. Open meeting at 9:01am. 2. Present: Tim Scully, Dave Brewer, Trey Loy, Tom Goncharoff, Dick Ahrens, Susan Winding, Willow Trent. Visitor: Carol Wollman. 3. Carol Wollman (937-2468) gave a short introduction to the Mission Aviation Fellowship, which does many relief flights around the world. Their leader, Skip Parrish, will be fundraising in this area on Memorial Day. 4. Minutes of the last meeting were approved. 5. Correspondence: A. Brewer, Trent, and Loy were reappointed to the Committee. Discussion on reappointments: we need to find out the term for each member and track this. 6. Board of Supervisors: We are on the Agenda for the meeting of the Public Resources Committee on 19 May 2000. 7. Hangars Report A. Task for Ahrens: make and send out 7 copies of the present report. B. Discussion of the Hangars Report: the Brewer Report. C. Discussion of the Hangars Report: Locations "C" & "D". 8. Meeting moved to the Little River Airport at 10:32am to view hangar locations. Meeting adjourned at 11:00am The committee's next meeting will be from 9am to 11am on Friday May 19 at the Clubhouse at The Woods, 43300 Little River Airport Rd. Interested parties are welcome to attend these meetings. The agenda for this meeting is: Approve the minutes of the last meeting Communications (letters, FAXes, etc, sent/received since last meeting) Additional hangars at the airport will be the main focus of this and the next few meetings. Reports from subcommittees Public comment Agree on a date, time and place for the next meeting Agree on agenda for next meeting Our tentative plan is to meet again on June 16, then we are agendized for the Public Resources Committee meeting in Ukiah on June 19 to present our work-in-progress hangar report. Members of the Little River Airport Advisory Committee ------------------------------------------------------ Dick Ahrens pilot, airport neighbor Dave Brewer pilot, lives near airport Tom Goncharoff Trey Loy non-pilot, lives near airport Tim Scully computer programmer, lives near airport Willow Trent airport neighbor, non-pilot Susan Winding airport neighbor, non-pilot, business owner ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Brewer Sent: March 28, 2000 3:51 PM To: Dick Ahrens Cc: Tim Subject: Action Items Hi Dick, Here are my action items for the report. I'm also attaching Word versions in case they are more convenient Dave Hangar Demand There is a waiting list for county-owned rental hangars at Little River. Since turnover in these hangars is very low, some names have been on the list for many years. To test current demand for hangar space, a member of the committee attempted to contact each person on the list. Each person contacted was asked two questions, which were clearly labeled as hypothetical: 1) "If there were rental hangars available at $200 per month would you take one now?" 2) "If hangars weren't available, would you be willing to pay a one-time charge of $200 to stay on the list?" An answer of "yes" to either question was taken as continued interest in hangar rentals. Of the thirty-one people on the list, twenty-three were contacted. (See Table ---) Six of the rest were not at their last known address or phone number. The seventh and eighth didn't respond to any of several messages. Nine of the twenty-three contacted were not sufficiently interested to part with $200. The remaining fourteen said they would take a hangar now or would pay $200 to stay on the list. Based on the conversations that went along with answers to the questions, it is the opinion of the committee member that ten hangars could be rented in the time it would take to build them. Relative Costs Although the committee did not make cost estimates for the each of the sites, we can make some observations about relative costs. Sites C and D would be the least expensive, since almost no site preparation would be required. There is an existing taxiway adjacent to each hangar site. Site C has the additional advantage that underground services (electricity, telephone and water) are available at the first hangar site. Services would have to be brought 700 or 800 feet to site D. Site A would require the creation of new taxiways and a bridge across the ditch or the relocation of an existing hangar for access. Site B has reasonable access to the tiedown area in front of the office, and hence would require less new taxiway than A. However the site slopes up at least 10 feet from the tiedown area, so considerable grading would be required. Sites A and B allow the use of nested hangars rather than a row of individual hangars. However the saving of one wall per hangar would be more than offset by the increased taxiways required to allow access to both sides of the cluster of nested hangars. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tim.scully Sent: April 12, 2000 5:03 PM To: gonch ; tim Subject: RE: airport utilities I'm guessing that you were going to write up a section for the hangar report discussing the existing utility connections to private hangars. Dick Ahren's computer has been in the repair shop, so he hasn't been on email for a while. Currently, many of the private hangars have connections to electricity, telephone and water. Most of them are connected to a single PG&E meter which is billed to me. From there, privately owned conduits and wires proceeds though a very long trench, across the big drainage ditch and along another long trench behind the hangars. The trench contains one conduit for power and another for telephone plus a third water pipe. Each participating hangar has a Christie box where it connects to the common power line and a privately-owned electrical meter outside the hangar. I read these meters every month and we divide up the PG&E bill according to each hangar's usage. Jack Reichel replaced the original privately-owned telephone wires in the phone wire conduit with higher quality cable a few years ago, and he sold pairs in this cable to various hangar owners. The phone company's responsability stops at a juntions box near Coast Flyer's hangar. Each hangar owner who has a phone is responsible for his own phone bill. I hope this helps. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Goncharoff > Sent: April 12, 2000 4:30 PM > To: tim > Subject: airport utilities > > > tim, > i found that i had written myself a cryptic note at the last lraac > meeting that said "address existing utilities" and e-mail to dick > ahrens. for the life of me, i don't know what i am supposed > to to about > this. can you help? > tom > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Notes for Hangar Report: 4 Possible Areas for Placement of Hangars by Trey Loy member Little River Airport Advisory Committee March 15, 2000 Location "A" Refer to Figure 2 on Page 5 of Report: "Proposed Hangar Locations, Little River Airport" This is the area designated for future hangars in the 1990 Airport Master Plan. Situated behind the existing private portable hangars and across the drainage ditch, aircraft access would require either bridging the ditch or removing an existing private portable hangar and its accompanying concrete pad. Both entrances need paved taxiway to reach the hangar area. The drainage ditch is about 57' wide and about 16 to 18 feet deep where the bridge would cross. We are not sure how wide the bridge needs to be to meet FAA requirements, nor how wide the taxiway leading to both sides of the bridge should be. At least twenty feet wide, though probably thirty feet, but I can imagine a greater width could be required. Estimating on a basis that the bridge needs to be thirty feet wide, three railroad flat cars could be used, with each of the ends resting on engineered concrete abutments and the top road bed surfaced with a suitable material. I do not have a cost estimate, but the bridge would be a major investment. A less expensive means of traversing the ditch is to place a suitable sized culvert (two to three foot diameter is sufficient) in the bottom of the drainage ditch and fill it up with compacted dirt, covering the top with asphalt over compacted road rock. A thirty foot taxi way would need a forty foot wide flat top, with outwardly sloping sides requiring some sort of erosion control. The distance from the main taxi way through the 80' open space between the fourth and fifth private portable hangars to the ditch is 96'. At least another hundred feet of taxi way would be needed on the other side of the ditch to service the proposed hangar Location "A", totaling 196' of thirty foot wide taxi way equaling 5880 square feet of pavement. Using the figure of $5.00 per square foot for asphalt paving, this taxi way would cost approximately $29,400.00. Returning to traversing the ditch with a culvert and fill: approximately 1300 cubic yards of fill would be needed, or 130 ten yard dump trucks. The fill could be obtained from the south east "desert" portion of the airport property. The other possible approach to Location "A" is through the existing hangar cul-de-sac of private portable hangars and the county-owned rental hangars. The end hangar is spaced fifty feet from the next hangar leaving a fifty foot wide entry into Location "A". The width of the taxiway through the cul-de-sac is 64 feet. Most single engine aircraft have a 36 to 42 foot wing span. A thirty-six foot wing span would have seven feet clearance on each side. A forty-two foot wing span would have four feet clearance on each side between buildings. To open this entrance to adequate width, one private portable hangar would have to be moved to another location to create the room needed to enter Location "A". Relocating the hangar would involve dismantling the metal structure, leaving the concrete foundation and floor, pouring a new concrete foundation and slab, and reassembling the hangar structure. The old concrete pad would be broken up and used for fill. New taxiway pavement to Location "A" would be 50 to 100 feet long, depending on placement of hangars. 30' wide x 100' is 3000 sq. feet, which at an estimating figure of $5.00 per sq. ft. is $15,000.00. To me, Location "A" is one of the prettiest places around the airport. The topography is fairly level, with just a slight grade sloping both westerly and easterly, crowning in the middle. The under brush was cleared a long time ago, leaving well spaced tall Bishop pine trees which give the area a park-like setting. Part of this area was once used for the "Firemen's Picnic". The distance from the ditch to the back of the picnic grounds is 300 feet. On the other side of the picnic grounds the woods become thick and wild again in a poorer pygmy type soil. Paralleling the drainage ditch the measurement of the semi-cleared area is 360 feet from the rear of the existing private hangars to where the woods begin to thicken. Size of a hangar plot: single engine aircraft hangars are roughly 40' x 40'. There is some room on the sides and the back, so we will use a 50' x 50' plot for the hangar. Paved aprons to existing private portable hangars are about fifty feet long and 15' to 20' wide. To obtain good and durable drainage in Location "A", the entire taxi way and apron area will have to be paved. 50' of pavement taxi way running in front of a single row of hangars would be minimum. A taxi way with hangars on each side would be about 70' wide. We could use a plot 50' x 100' for each hangar, half for hangar proper, half for entry/apron/taxi way. Each hangar plot would be about 5,000 sq. ft. Location "A" is 300' x 360', which is 108,000 sq. ft. This whole area, including the old picnic grounds would accommodate 20 to 25 hangars. More hangars in this area would require clearing of a wooded area. Location "B" This area is southeast of the main aircraft parking area and the fuel tank, part of which has been recently cleared. From the drainage ditch to the back fence behind the fuel tank, separating aircraft parking from automobile parking, is 153'. A 70' wide taxi way with 50' deep hangar plots on each side would total a width of 170'. Paralleling the drainage ditch the distance from the paved parking area through the recently cleared area is 279'. The distance from the pavement to the segmented circle is 543'. The topography of this area rises significantly towards the far corner near the drainage ditch where the segmented circle is placed. I guess the rise to be 20' in the five hundred fifty feet from the pavement to the segmented circle. The land slopes steeply from the segmented circle north east away from the drainage ditch. A small part of Location "B" is heavily wooded, while the rest is high brush. After clearing there would be some heavy grading to create the central 70' taxi way with stepped hangar plots on each side (50'). If we consider Location "B" to be 170' wide, or 20' on the auto side of the fence, and 500' long, just short of the segmented circle, there could be plots for twenty hangars. Location "B" has no access expense as it is directly adjacent to the paved aircraft parking area. Location "C" This area is a continuation of the existing private portable hangars paralleling the main taxiway to runway 11. The distance from the main taxi way to the edge of the drainage ditch is 96', which will accommodate a hangar and its apron. There is an asphalt shallow drainage ditch dividing Location "C" length-wise. Between the shallow drainage ditch and the taxiway the topography is almost level and graded smooth and clear of vegetation. In the space between the shallow asphalt drainage ditch and the deep drainage ditch is mixed vegetation. This vegetation has recently been cut for a distance of 846' from the last existing hangar in that line. The ground between the two drainage ditches begins to slope more steeply towards the large drainage ditch further towards the end of the runway. After this recently cleared part the ground slopes too steeply to build hangars without a tremendous amount of fill. This means area "C" is 846' long leaving 927' to the end of the runway. Location "C" could hold 16 hangars in a row, each with an apron access to the main taxi way. The rear half of Location "C" would need stump removal and grading. Location "D" This is the area along the taxiway to runway 29 after the paved tiedown area for aircraft. The tiedown pavement extends 40' from the edge of the taxi way toward the drainage ditch and runs 504'. The width of Location "D" from the taxi way to the drainage ditch is 102', deep enough for a hangar and apron. Location "D" ends 153' from the end of the runway, before the taxi way begins to curve towards the runway, which make it 1641 feet long. This length could contain 32 parking spaces for aircraft, half of which could be future tiedowns and half hangar space. The land in Location "D" is quite level, gently sloping to the drainage ditch, cleared of all vegetation and graded smooth from the taxi way to the drainage ditch. There is no entry or access pavement required and no site preparation.